The Great Debate Season 12 Semi Finals!!! - r/whowouldwin (2024)

This point is extremely critical for my opponent. At the start of the round, Michael Wilson will raise his arm and start firing his minigun. This action will take around half a second, and if Naruto doesn't provably have piercing resistance, he gets filled with bullets, and he dies.

The way I see it, there are roughly three points of contention on this, they are:

  • Naruto can get his chakra cloak up before Wilson fires

  • Naruto's Chakra cloak is bulletproof

  • Naruto can shrug off damage that pierces him

Let's go down the line and look at all of these

Chakra Cloak activation speed

My opponent presents two scans in this argument

With this being all the evidence, the case seems to largely just be the activation time never comes up, because Naruto never fights anyone who instantly tries to attack him with a piercing weapon while he has no abilities activated. And with that being the case, these feats obviously don't really make up the difference.

This feat just has no timeframe, there's no pressure or thing that would indicate how much time is passing, and he just goes from deactivated to activated.

This feat would be better except for two problems

So there's no real good answer to "how fast can he activate this" other than "idk it never really comes up" That isn't nearly good enough to say that he could transform within .5 seconds.

Chakra Cloak Durability

I will admit slightly here, I am a noob at Naruto, I don't have a clear picture of what the Naruto my opponent is running actually looks like and assumed this was Sage of Six Paths form. My opponent is still not actually clear, but I think this is the same form he's running? The critical point though is, with what he has explained in mind, his claims for the chakra cloak having piercing durability are extremely questionable.

The argument my opponent is presenting is that Naruto is so inconsistent that he went from being able to take bullets that fire through a bulletproof safe as a teenager to not being able to stop a random ass sword as an adult Although it does seem true that he did generally get weaker, the idea that this form's ability to deal with piercing went from high to literally nothing is absurd.

And if you do believe it, the idea that this black form from when he was a child has the exact same piercing durability as his normal form, when his piercing durability can just fall off a cliff at random with no explanation is absurd.

And my opponent still doesn't sufficiently respond to my original argument. Naruto is always catching piercing attacks with his chakra arms. He never directly tanks a piercing or cutting attack in his chakra cloak form with his body. If he was even just using the arms to block my opponent may have a case, but every time he's specifically catching the attacks.

So my opponent's argument revolves around Naruto's piercing durability mysteriously falling off a cliff for no reason, but this only happening once over the course of his life. And even if you think that sounds reasonable, Naruto just flat out does not have a feat for blocking anything on the level of Wilson's piercing, or blocking literally any piercing attack in general in the form he's being run. There is not even close to enough evidence to say he could take minugun fire.

If Naruto gets shot

My opponent adds on an argument in his last response about how Naruto can regen organs, but this is pretty inconsequential. A minigun is going to fill him with bullets, hitting his heart, his brain, and several other vital organs that would probably just instantly splatter his head or organs out of his body and kill him. He cannot regen from a bullet just instantly killing him.

Conclusion

Naruto cannot survive being filled with minigun bullets, his armor cannot defend him against minigun bullets, and even if it could he couldn't get it up in time to matter. At the start of the match Naruto gets swiss cheesed.

But let's say, for the sake of argument, that he didn't

My opponent's only win condition in this match is that, since the Rasengan can travel through stuff, Naruto can use it to bypass Wilson's mech and kill him under it.

Before I discuss this claim directly, I want to underline how important it is to this matchup for my opponent.

My opponent links two feats for the strength of the Rasengan, and these two feats are the sum total of argumentation about Naruto's damage output.

In fact, this can be dismissed as damage output, since the argument is that the Rasengan is agitating the water so that it does this, not that the Rasengan just passes through and blows out the back of the water tower. This is not my argument, this is my opponent's wording on the feat

His other feat seems to just be going through one small rock formation and not disrupting that much of it? It seems like all the other rocks in this feat are unmoved. This feat is really poor damage output for the tier, and its my opponent's singular direct offensive feat. If this argument does not stand, my opponent has literally no win condition.

So let's see if it holds up.

First of all, this is seemingly the literal only instance of the Rasengan doing this, every time he uses it against an opponent it doesn't phase, and ever time he uses it against any other material it just breaks through.

An easy guess as to why might be the material itself, this water tower is pretty clearly very thin, and Michael's mech is, for the most part, way thicker in every place.

Unless Naruto is like "oh I bet that's a man's head, I will use the phasing property of my Rasengan which I did once in training to win this fight instantly" its pretty unlikely for this to ever actually come to fruition.

But even if this does work, it doesn't majorly matter

Even if Naruto can one shot Michael Wilson, and his piercing attacks don't work at all, it doesn't matter.

My opponent completely ignores my arguments about Wilson's blunt force ranged weapons, those being

Naruto has no ranged attacks to compete with these, and Michael Wilson can jet and zip around the battlefield.

Naruto's hypothetical counter to this is strategy, but his strategies have some pretty large flaws.

Firstly, Michael Wilson has a radar that lets him detect even opponents, cutting off a lot of the disguisey strategies Naruto might pursue.

Secondly, most of Naruto's fights take place in a woody foresty dirt-ey areas, and this fight takes place in an airport. Naruto has never been to an airport, and Wilson has ample experience fighting in that kind of area. This is a particular problem because

And in addition, there's a ton of roofs and planes on the map, and Naruto has no air mobility.

Naruto has no good or real way to close the distance, Wilson has tons of ways to maintain it, and has relevant and threatening ranged offense

  • Wilson can kill Naruto with piercing

  • Wilson can keep Naruto at range, and has relevant ranged offense

  • Naruto has no workable win condition

The Great Debate Season 12 Semi Finals!!! - r/whowouldwin (2024)

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